S4E17: The Reluctant Entrepreneur - Intuition

Season 4: The Reluctant Entrepreneur | Episode 17 | 38 min

Guest: Theresa Lebeiko

What does using our intuition feel like?

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Show Notes

What does using our intuition feel like? In this episode, we talk with Diana's mom, Theresa Lebeiko. Diana considers Theresa to be a huge inspiration and source of support throughout her entrepreneurial journey.

Referenced in this episode

• Circle of Grace by Jan Richardson
• Little Boxes by Malvina Reynolds

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Transcript

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Cross-Street Coaching. This is a show about leadership, personal and professional development, all from a coach's point of view. And this year, this season, Diana Ideus, my co-host, and myself, Jason Spector, we have been doing a series on entrepreneurship called The Reluctant Entrepreneur, for those of us, not for those of us who were born into a family business, and not for those people who said, I can never work a day in the life. It's for everyone else in between. And we have been calling the series, The Reluctant Entrepreneur. And today, we've got another special guest, and we're recording live again. From Oceana, California. Oceana, California. And Diana, do you want to talk about who you have asked to come on the podcast today? Yes, one of my favorite people in the whole entire world. My mom, Teresa Labaco, is with us. So very excited. My mom has been an instrumental part of my journey as an entrepreneur, an instrumental part of my father, who's no longer with us, journey as an entrepreneur, and just in general. So, so thankful for the gifts and the blessings and the support that I've received. The success of Hawthorne Union and the success of me personally is due in no small part to her presence and the loving and creative and supportive environment that she and my dad created for me. So really excited to have her here and hear her perspective. And welcome to the show, mom, her first podcast ever. Thank you. Thank you. And so actually, to kick us off, there's there's so much we can cover. But to kick us off, I would love to open up for my mom to share a poem with us. And

this is something that she shared with me that was very instrumental and supportive on my entrepreneurial journey. And I thought it would be a great way to kick off this episode. So the part, the piece that I've selected is from Circle of Grace by Jan Richardson. And it's called Beloved is where we begin. If you would enter into the wilderness, do not begin without a blessing. Do not leave without hearing who you are beloved named by the one who has traveled this path before you. Do not go without letting it echo in your ears. And if you find it is hard to let it into your heart, do not despair. That is what this journey is for. I cannot promise this blessing will free you from danger, from fear, from hunger or thirst from the scorching of sun or the fall of the night. But I can tell you that on this path, there will be help. I can tell you that on this way, there will be rest. I can tell you that you will know the strange graces that come to our aid only on a road such as this that fly to meet us bearing comfort and strength that come alongside us for no other reason than to lean themselves toward our ear and with their curious insistence, whisper our name, Beloved, Beloved, Beloved. So I had been reading this book that I really appreciated. And sometimes when Diana and I have had dinner, we'll sit in the living room afterwards and share what we've read, what we've been thinking, what's going on. And I told her this reminded me of her. And when I read it, I was really moved to see how much it touched her. And so we decided

together that it would be a good place to start. So I want to say some about my professional background. That'd be great. Yeah, I've been an English teacher. I've worked in a rehab center. I went back to graduate school to do teacher education. So I see myself as a writing literature teacher and as a teacher educator. And so it was interesting to go from the personal of sharing this piece with Diana and to let it work on me today. What is it that I would like to share with the podcast? And what struck me is that basically this relates to intuition. And when I thought of intuition, you know, I thought that there are different ways that we relate to intuition. In my own career journey, I've often thought of it as what I'm called to do. Somebody else might think about it as what feels like a pull to me. Or Diana says that at one point when she was resisting it, it felt like it was a push for her. Truth. So intuition, I think, is that part of us that influences our choices. And as I thought of it, I thought choices of friends, of partners, of pets, of colors, of homes, of career choices. And then once I said career choices, I thought hopefully our intuition has impacted our career choices. At one point, I was working in a teacher education program, and two people that I remember had been in other careers, one was a lawyer and one was a pharmacist, who said that they chose the careers they chose because of their parents' influence. But they were coming around many years later to choose teaching, you know, in the mid-80s. So I thought that the people listening to this

podcast may be very in tune with their careers and their intuition, or they may have been interfered with in some ways. And I thought what's also important in addition to the intuition is what support is available. Those who love us and our own practices provide support, and those who have knowledge, preferably those people who have been in careers similar to what we're considering, or those who are considering the same career can be very supportive. So those are some initial thoughts. I want to stop to see if you have questions or if you'd like to add to that. Oh, well, thank you so much. I think I would. I think I would like to add to that. Okay. So, Teresa, glad to have you on. Thank you. Glad to have Mama Lobeko on. Yes. So thank you for sharing that passage. And you kind of talked to me a little bit about how that you and Diana were reading. Were you reading this specific passage or just this book in general? I mean, talk to me about how you landed on this one to kind of kick off our discussion here today. Well, it really moved to Diana. And she had been struggling with some issues related to entrepreneurship. Many issues. Yes. The struggle. Many issues. That's weird. I know the reluctance and the struggle. I mean, not like we haven't been talking about difficulties and frustrations on entrepreneurship for a whole year here. So that's shocking. Yes. So as I remember it, when I got to I cannot promise you this blessing will free you. And I listed the dark things that we can encounter in our in our career path from danger, fear, hunger. But when I got to but I can tell you

that on this path, there will be help. I was moved to see Diana tear up. She's not an easy person to tear up. So I was really I was deeply moved that something I had chosen that reminded me of what might speak to her spoke to her that deeply. And then when I quote it, I forget this part. I can tell you that on this way there will be rest. So I think that the issues of there will be help and there will be rest were really important issues. So since then, we've talked about it as being an intimate and important sharing between us. And Diana said, I'd like you to read that. Yeah, we're gonna hear from Diana in a second because she gets to talk all the time. Yeah, I am curious, though, what if anything in there resonated with you? Yeah, it's I think, because obviously, before we even started recording, you were kind of telling me that you wanted to share this passage and that rest was something important. And so now that I'm kind of hearing it for a second time, the concept of rest really does stand out because from an entrepreneurship point of view, it can feel like forgive my French, but will it ever end? Yeah. And if it ends, what happens then? Yeah. And that if it does slow down, that's a bad sign. The idea of rest is almost a negative is almost the constitution that when you're trying to do a business, it's about working as hard as you can, because that's what successful people do. And don't slow down. And if you do slow down, it's because your heart's really not in it, or it's really not a passion project, or you're not

as dedicated. And so the idea of true rest, and I'm talking about this from a context of someone who also has a day job in addition to all the coaching and has just come off a week plus a vacation where I truly felt unplugged. That could be very, very foreign for a lot of people trying to grow a business. And but we have advocated for the opposite, which is when you're an entrepreneur, it is so important to take care of your number one asset, which is you and that true idea of restfulness of being renewed is very important, but doesn't intuitively come to a lot of people that are working in business. So that's what stood out to me. Yeah. I'll say for me, just having so much struggle, I didn't want to do this. I didn't sign up for this. This isn't my dream. I don't think that's going to work. The idea of there being help and rest, and then also from a support perspective, just, you know, my mom kind of understanding and seeing and I think that that's in some ways what the people who support us do for us, the people that love us, that our parents able to see, you know, one of the things that comes to mind. I especially as a child was a picky eater. And my mom's really good at being like, I think you might like this. And so she single handedly expanded my tastes. And I think it was, it's also that moment of, you know, I see you daughter in this thing that you're struggling with. And whether it's from an intuitive perspective, but then also adding it from the literature perspective, because we've talked about this with listen and the way

that I listen to words and things like that. This is just a language that are it's, you know, what some people call a love language, like the language itself. So for me, it was just very resonant. And I think that's one of the things in coaching as well is like when there's an impact, it's often when, you know, whether it's a personal relationship or a professional relationship, when someone feels truly seen and heard, and there is that way that they can take that breath. That's so important. And so this particular, she shared multiple poems with me, and they all have, they all have different resonance. But this one just really like grabbed me. And I think the, you know, there will be help and there will be rest. I was not feeling those things at that moment, and then felt the kind of relief of them. And I think that that's also, as my mom talks about intuition, I think that's some of the magic of intuition. You know, sometimes something will come flying out of my mouth, and I'll be like, that was a weird way to phrase it, or I don't usually use that word. And then often, it's something that really has some kind of resonance with something, someone else. So it was just, it was an important moment to me in my journey. And so in welcoming my mom on and thinking about intuition and blessings and support, it just felt like a way to tie it all together. Yeah. So Teresa, tell us about how you, what that poem meant to you. I mean, why did you choose to read it that day that you initially shared it? Well, I was, I went back just now to the first lines

of it, if you would enter into the wilderness, do not begin without a blessing. I think so many of the things that we take on are a kind of wilderness, you know, and the focus here is, is entrepreneurship. And as you were talking about rest, and Jason, I thought that my husband and I both came to that idea from being first gen, both being first generation college, and being very driven to succeed. And one of the writers that spoke to us was Gail Scherr, who talked about the kind of trauma we can feel because we haven't had models in front of us, modeling what is important. So we don't think not only do we fear of failing, we fear we're going to die if we take on this thing, you know. And so it came from, from our own desires, and being driven and working hard and overwhelming ourselves. And then having that desire of what does it mean to have a full life? You know, what does it mean to have a balanced life? And so we had each gone into therapy individually before we met. And then we had also done that as a couple. And so that was an important thing for us in starting a family. What does it mean to have a balanced life? And how do we bring that balance to our lives and to our relationship and to our daughter? So we often were aware of that, not just because we were intuitive, but because we had been driven ourselves. And we knew the importance of rest and, and of supports. Very cool. So talk a little bit about why this would be important, considering the background that you've had. So you've had kind of a few different

roles. And you've talked about starting a family. How does this relate to entrepreneurship for you? Well, I personally was not ever interested in entrepreneurship. Me neither. But, but I was moved by and driven by growth, you know, so after I taught for a couple of years, and I thought I can be this good a teacher after two years, I need to get my master's, you know, and after I had my master's, I actually thought I wanted to change careers, but I was really I was also looking for further education. So it wasn't entrepreneurship for me, but it was it was further growth and further growth that frightened me and was motivated by desire. But, but I didn't have many models, or I certainly didn't have models in my in my family. And then, as Ken and I were starting a family, and I was my mid 30s at the time in 1980. That wasn't as common as it as it was later. And even one of my best friends talked about a woman who had a child and then went right back to work. She said, I don't know what she had a child for. So, so that was really a challenge for me, you know, first, it was further education. And then I ended up doing my dissertation on the dual career family. So, so that was the project that I was called to take on that I didn't have an idea that I was going in that direction. And then the other thing is, within a couple of months, this is kind of before this, before within a couple of months of our being married, Ken and I were both teachers in the same community college. And one of his students asked him

to consult with him. And Ken was excited about that. He said, I've been wanting to go into my own business. And this could be my chance. And I said, go for it. And, you know, what we each did is we supported each other with our dreams. But looking back, we were very naive about what it would entail. And so, some of what I see in and appreciate about Diana, even though she struggled with the reluctance of being an entrepreneur, I thought, good for you. We went into this without realizing, you know, many of the things that you're addressing as difficulties and that you're challenging yourself to get support for. So, and when I think about it, my support of Ken and Diana as entrepreneurs has been very different. So, well, what's similar is in each case, I felt strongly, go for it. If this is what you're drawn to, go for it. In the first case, I was much more naive about it. And so, the support that I gave is, you know, I was the spouse who had the steady income. It was the English teacher that helped him with communications and presentations. And we sent out flyers and licked envelopes. And with Diana, it feels like not only am I a parent, but in a way, I feel like my challenge is to listen and to relate. I'm glad that I've had my own professional journey, so I can often relate to just a professional journey. And then on the other hand, I haven't been a coach, so I'm also learning. And I haven't been in my own business or was I as intimately involved in processes. So, it's really rich for me to share it. Yeah. So, what I'm hearing is that

because you didn't know what you're getting into, similar to entrepreneurs, is that they need to find themselves a Teresa as well, right? I mean, we would all benefit. Well, thank you. But having the possibility of a spouse to provide a steady income was good for a while, but we lived in California. That wasn't very sustainable. And then on the other hand, he was the steady income when I was finishing my degree. So, the positive I see is that we were for each other and supporting each other's dreams. But what we saw in our lives and what I see Diana doing is you need multiple supports. She has supports related to the business and other coaches and other friends and et cetera, that it's multiple supports that can be important. Yeah. And also, I'm hearing you relate that your professional growth, while it was an education and not an entrepreneurship, that they seem very parallel. They seem very similar to you. And I'm curious that the, I mean, you labeled it as being naive, but if that's part of it, if that part of not really knowing what's out there, some people would say, well, that's possibility. That's opportunity. But do you see it the same way now that you're kind of reflecting back on like, hey, it was in the 80s, people weren't really doing that kind of thing? Or do you say like, hey, we really just didn't know and we tried it anyways? Well, I think I'm seeing both. Knowing the difficulty and the challenges financially and emotionally because of the uncertainties. I say we were naive and there were many things that needed to be considered. And I think that the positive thing is that we really were for each other in

supporting each other's dream. And he said, this is a chance and this is what I wanted to do. Well, let's do it. And I hope that my more experienced self could still say, well, let's do it. But I would say, well, let's consider how we're going to do this. Let's slow down and think about this. You know, I wouldn't say don't do it. But let's consider how we're going to do this. And yeah, good question. Thanks. Thanks for asking. And, you know, one of the songs that sticks in my mind that I was thinking of today is, it was popular. We got married in 76. Popular around that time is that people were motivated by having ticky tacky houses on the hillside, like what was established. And I think we were just the opposite of that. So this is something you want to do. This is a dream. This lights up your eyes. Go for it. And similarly, within a year of our being married, I had considered before that of going on for a doctorate and just shelved it for a while. And he encouraged me to apply. And when I got accepted, I said, well, you've just been in your business for a year. This isn't a good time for us to pick up roots and move from Chicago to California. And he said, it's only going to get harder later. Go for it. So that was very much a theme in our lives. Yeah, I think one of the things too, and that's one of the hard things. So my dad passed over 15 years ago now. There's there's things I would ask him now that, you know, about the entrepreneur life or, for example, I work a lot in tech. And

so I'm working with a lot of engineers and engineering managers. And that was his field. You know, he didn't call himself a coder, but that's not what they called it back then. So, you know, it's just I think some of it too. And this maybe ties to the intuitive piece is like we there's there's things we remember, but there's also those knowledge gaps. And so just, you know, honoring honoring him. I think, you know, my life has definitely been shaped by the if this is what you want, then go for it, you know, make it happen. Because there are no matter what we choose, even if it's something we're not really that into, there's barriers and, you know, resistance and things like that. So but I think sometimes, you know, maybe what ties I'm curious to tie it back and see how you tie it back to intuition, especially as we think about the entrepreneur path and your own path. And one of the things, too, I feel like sometimes intuitively we're filling in the gaps, like, it sounds like the go for it was intuitively fueled, like, yes, it was dream fueled, but also intuitively fueled. And yeah, there were there were harder times in that. And also, I mean, every choice has those. Well, I'm not sure where to take it from here. I wrote down some some notes about kind of how I would clarify these issues. Well, cognitive skills are needed to be called upon and integrated, you know, that I guess, connected with what you're saying is, whatever it is we choose, or wherever we start, it's a process. And what I thought is, and it's a process that's related to desire or longing. What is it that we want

to do? I mean, that that lawyer and that pharmacist who, you know, who followed their education into those fields, and as far as I know, they were able to be successful, but it wasn't fulfilling their heart's desire. And, and actually, the challenges of teaching can also be intense. You know, at that time, in the mid 80s, I thought, wow, it's inspiring, and it also causes me to wonder why people would want to go into teaching at this time, because it was really difficult, a lot of difficulties in the classroom. And I think related to the desire is that each path has its own evolution, you know, and people might might start with the dream or desire. And like, I started out wanting to be a teacher. So I did that for three years. And I found it stifling. I know at the I was I taught in a high school seminary the third year, and the desks were nailed down to the floor. That just bothered me. That was just really an important metaphor. So I left and I was in a rehab center for three years, I wanted to be involved in education, but not in in kind of the nail down to the desks nailed down to the floor sense. And you might want to clarify rehab center means something different now. Yeah, I think most people think of like alcoholic recovery or physical recovery in house residential center for visually handicapped students who were at least 18 years of age. So it was young students and also newly blinded adults. So it's a residential center in which they were learning life skills. And I had the benefit of being the only educator on a clinical services team. So a lot of the

the coaching characteristics and skills I hear Diana talking about I was exposed to in those years. So I loved that was part of my evolution to go from kind of the high school teaching I was drawn to to another kind. And after about three years, I missed I missed chalkboard and assignments and syllabus and stuff like that. So then I went to to community college teaching. So so it's interesting that that I was drawn to be a teacher. But over the 42 years that I was in education, I was drawn in different ways to make different choices, and sometimes choices that really scared me, but it seemed like an important next step. Yeah. And I'm also hearing that you enjoy some structure, but not so much structure, not too much structure that the chairs and tables are literally nailed down into place. That's right. That's right. And it sounds like for you that the draw is maybe where some of the intuitive pull comes from, just because you know, knowing there's you're talking about growth path and education and support, but knowing that also as you think about intuition, it seems like that's, that's where some of this is coming out. It's a good point. And in one time, a friend of mine who I had also seen as a therapist, she was a therapist that I worked with for some sessions, and it was before we moved to California. And I was really in conflict with what this move was entailing and quitting my job and going back to graduate school. And I said, it seems like if we follow our desires, we can continually be in conflict with things that scare us. And she kind of smiled. And she said, my wish for

you is that you come to be at peace with your spirit of search. And I thought spirit of search, I was talking about stress and conflict. And I think of that sometimes because it put me in conflict with those things. So I appreciate your summary. So I'm not I didn't pursue an entrepreneurial path, but but that educational path, you know, put me in touch with with those things, which is probably the case for many of the people listening to this who have even who have a college education, it probably has not been smooth. Well, I mean, you're citing intuition as far as you were moving away from a highly structured environment of a high school classroom. And did you say like, you know, what'd be really great to do doing rehab work? I mean, did you have a distinct choice like that? I mean, how did you and then going from saying, rehab has been great, but you know what I need to do college? Was it that? No. Okay. So it was more of a instinctual kind of process you were following. And kind of guideposts along the way. So while I was working on my master's, I met somebody who was involved with Center for the Blind in Chicago and knew that they needed an English teacher to help students with English or with writing skills who were going on to college. And and he said, would you be interested in doing that? So I said, Sure, I'd like to do that. And so then, then I met met somebody there who knew about another position later on when I was looking to leave the nail down the nail down desks. And, and I liked the idea of being involved in communication and

and in education without it being so structured. And I was I was also interested in kind of an intuitive, sensitive part of learning. I know that that same person who recommended me when I when I said, I'll be assisting a psychologist, or I'll be doing human awareness work. And he said, as a teacher, as a teacher or as a client, and I said, Oh, as a teacher, and he said, Well, I can see you being on both sides of that. So I was drawn to that that that fit. And after doing that, it for three years, I felt like in another way, I was fitting into somebody else's structure. And a deep structure for me was also as an educator. And then what I saw in working at the residential center is I really liked working with adults students. So a number of our students were in their 50s or 60s have been blinded by disease or accident. And I and I liked working with young students. So I saw that completing my master's gave me the opportunity to teach in a community college and community colleges were not part of my awareness in earlier years. So so it was another signpost. Oh, I like this. This is another place where I do this. I'm curious if as you think about working with people that in this particular case, didn't have sight, you know, they often say that the other senses are heightened. You know, in thinking about intuition, or almost an intuitive sense, does that is that a thread at all that you noticed in working with that group? Well, one of one of the experiences is one year, a couple of years, I was going to be in charge of a program to

prepare students going on to college. So we, we followed some college students to see blind college students to see what they experienced and what supports they needed. And so I was aware in in shadowing this one blind student in particular, how sound sensitive he was to his environment, you know, and so I was shadowing him. I mean, and I heard students talk about that. But you know, he said, Well, so somebody has just, just opened these, these double doors and walk down these steps. So I saw that it was a matter of focus, you know, that I didn't need to be aware of that person coming to the right and coming down the stairs. And I think the other thing is we had in one of the groups, we had a speaker, who was himself blind. And he said that one time he was walking in the snow by one of the museums in Chicago. And, and he remembered how he loved seeing the snow as he grew up. But he also was appreciative of the crunch of the snow and the sound and the feel of the snow in his present situation. So that that doesn't necessarily mean you know, that the other senses are heightened, but maybe we have the need to focus in another direction that we hadn't needed to focus on before. Sure. I think it's also we use what we have, you know, and one of the things it's often when I'm speaking from my intuition, I'll say, well, my sense of it is, so it's not something I directly correlated. But as you talk about working with people who were visually impaired, and then thinking about whether it's a heightened sense of hearing, touch, etc. You know, I think

just one, this may not have been your path or the connection you're drawing. But something that's coming up to me is thinking about how in an area where we maybe don't have sight, you know, whether our intuition, whether what we hear who supports us on the path is, is potentially coming up or more relevant. I think so. Yeah. What I was also thinking, when you asked our other senses heightened, one of my jobs was recreational therapist. So it's like they were fitting me in where there were three different slots where they needed somebody, you know, and, and as recreational therapist, I would recruit students, and and we'd get volunteers to be sighted guides, and we go out to dinner and we go to plays. And the part of the educational program is for them to see that they could still enjoy these parts of life as, as people who couldn't see, you know, and who needed assistance to see. And there was one man who is probably in his 50s, and really having a hard time thinking, I don't remember his profession, but I know he had been professional. And this was just really a whammy for him. And I sat next to him in the hallway, and I was trying to encourage him to sign up for this. And he said, This is really horrible. You know, why do I want to go to dinner, and I can't see my fork and knife and plate and somebody else has to cut my food. I'm still learning how to do that. And I remember stopping and just taking it in and saying, I hear you, I would really hate it. And, you know, I guess what I heard in a podcast I was hearing earlier

today is, is you're talking about the importance of a sense of authenticity. So it's like on whatever field can we how can we relate authentically to people? I said, but the point is that with help, and with people who are sighted, you can test it out before you try to test it out on your own, that life is an ending, you can still go to dinner, you can still go to movies, you can still go to plays. And I think the first time I ever was a sighted guide to a movie, one of the students said, You don't have to tell us everything. You're working too hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can see a lot of parallels about how using a different sense or relying on intuition would be a needed skill heightened in the sense and luckily, hopefully starting a business should not be as traumatic as losing your eyesight, hopefully. Yeah. Although I'm sure some people say it feels like that some days. I think for some, though, especially if someone didn't choose entrepreneurship, and it's the response to losing a job, like the trauma of a job loss. I mean, not the same. It sucks. But like, you know, some of the emotions and the trauma, I think, depending on if someone's resonating with reluctant entrepreneur, the chances is that the road here wasn't necessarily all smooth sailing. Yeah, as we've talked about it, they're different, different hards, right? Like, that's hard and losing a sense. But yeah, that, you know, what, what I said is, Diana's dad came with this, this, you know, I have this offer. And this has been my dream. And then in another case, you know, somebody can say, I've lost this job that was offered. That

was my dream, cross country. What the hell am I going to do now? You know, we were and actually part of this piece says, I can't tell you what this way that on this way there will there will be rest after it, I can tell you that you will know the strange graces that come to our aid only on a road such as this. And one time when I quoted it to Diana in a text, I think I said, special graces. And she said, Oh, I like that better than strange graces. So when I went back to read it, I thought, you know, I think we're also dealing with strange graces, things that we can't anticipate, and that that we're not quite sure what to do with at the time. Yeah, yeah. And maybe that we didn't want. Yeah. So I'm curious, you know, as we close, just thinking about, you know, having married someone who became an entrepreneur and raising someone who became an entrepreneur, anything you would say as, you know, whether it's the steady Betty or the supporting cast, or kind of helping, helping these dreams come to fruition, perspective that you would offer? Wow. Well, I think I think that in each case, what I see is the importance of following a possibility, you know, like, it might be a dream, like, or it might be, I'm in this situation, what's the next thing I might do? And then in the possibility? Is this a source of grace for me? Is this a match? Is this a source of growth? I think that's the key question, whatever it is that we choose, and then where are our supports? So is it worth it to me personally to pursue it, it's going

to be hard, what will support us, what will sustain us? And, and when do we need to stop to evaluate? Is this working or not? You know, probably periodically? Did that answer your question? Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing us a little bit, a little bit more about you and a little bit more about about Diana as well. It's been awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, everyone for tuning in. You can find more about Diana and I on the halls of LinkedIn and on the Hawthorne Union website. We'll have links to all that in the show notes. Unless, Teresa, are you, are you a big, big, got a big online presence? No. No? No. So you're gonna have to find out about her right here on this podcast. Right. Yep. And that was really funny, Diana, you had started closing the show exactly what I was thinking, we should probably wrap up the show. Was that your intuition? Totally. So thanks, everyone, for tuning in. And until next time. Thank you. Thank you.