S4E14: The Reluctant Entrepreneur - Perspective

Season 4: The Reluctant Entrepreneur | Episode 14 | 40 min

Guest: Joseph Castro, ACC

How can we truly grow from our limits?

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Show Notes

How can we truly grow from our limits? Joseph Castro, ACC comes on the show to share his viewpoint on transition coaching, the growth edge, and comfort zones.

Referenced in this episode

• Dharma - a concept in eastern religion
• Hell of a View by Eric Church
• The Fool - tarot card representing new beginnings
• Lost - the TV show. Jacen can't be the only one who remembers it.
• The Great Work of your Life by Steven Cope

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Transcript

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Cross Street Coaching. This is a podcast about business, leadership, personal and professional development, all from a coach's point of view. And we are continuing along in our reluctant entrepreneur series. That is Diana Ideus, Master Certified Coach, Master Credentialed Coach, hey, who's been co-hosting me on this with me on this project. That is our flavor of entrepreneurship, our flavor of starting a business for those that don't fit into the traditional definitions. And on today's episode, we are going to feature another Hawthorne Union member who actually hasn't been on the podcast yet. I mean, but Joseph, you've been here for over a year. Almost a year. Almost a year. Yes. So since last year, and we haven't had you on the podcast yet. So we thought this was a great opportunity. So welcome, Joseph Castro. Thank you. You're welcome. Glad you can join us in the virtual studio today. So before we dive into our topic for today, why don't you tell a little bit about you for our listeners that maybe haven't seen your work or haven't seen you pop up on the website yet. Who is the man, the mystery, the myth, the legend, Joseph Castro? All right. Well, thank you, Diana. And thank you, Jason. I'm truly excited to be here on the podcast. My name is Joseph Castro. I originally grew up in California, now in the state of Washington. I did a lot of work in the Head Start and Migrant Head Start world training and technical assistance, really making an impact on the lives of children and families for many, many, many years. I came upon my coaching entrepreneur experience after moving to Washington for an executive position in a large migrant Head Start organization and

parted ways with that organization and decided to dive in completely and fully into the coaching, consulting, training and development entrepreneur path. It's been an incredible journey, a lot of learning, a lot of ups and downs, and I'm just really, really excited to be on the path and to continue evolving and growing, growing in particular in many, many ways. We're glad to have you aboard. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. Okay. So, Joseph, so you've been hearing what me and Diana have been talking about, the reluctant entrepreneur, and you had some thoughts as you've kind of transitioned into an entrepreneurial space. How are you classifying your current career trajectory? My current career trajectory, I'm aiming to be the most impactful, transformative coach that I can to the clients, to the individual, to the organization that's in front of me, to really help them realize their potential, to help them get through their own growing pains, get through their own growth edges, and really be the best that they can be, actualize who they are to their fullest. And on that path, what I've found in my own personal life and experience is a constant growth edge, particularly just pushing up against what is outside of my comfort zone and feeling what I have described and come to terms with as growing pains with that growth edge. I don't relate to that at all. That's not what this whole season is about. Yeah. So, as you're at that growth edge, I think it's actually good, though, that you, it'd be one thing to just say growing pains, like growth can be so painful, but what's interesting as you talk about it, you're able to identify that there's an edge and then the growing pains come

from that. So, I don't know if you distinguish those, but your language for those is different. So, I'm just curious kind of how you see that difference and how that's maybe come up for you as you are on this entrepreneurial path. Well, you know, I've thought a lot about it. And from the beginning of that shift towards entrepreneurship, I definitely recognized my growth edges and have some really concrete example of those growth edges and even some of the pains that kind of have come along with that. One of the most prominent ones that comes to mind is just the notion of establishing an LLC, like formally establishing the business. And the growth edge was this area of ignorance or unknowns, information, processes, things that were outside of my knowledge and definitely outside of my comfort zone. So, for example, specifically the logistics around establishing an LLC, speaking with a tax person, understanding the language, understanding the pros and the cons, all of that stuff was new to me. And to a certain degree, still continues to be new to me because there's always newer things, bigger things on the horizon. And so, I experienced these pains with, well, one, feeling a sense of, well, the sense of ignorance and not knowing can be intimidating, has been intimidating for me. And so, feeling the pains of, can I, and the doubts, really, can I do this? I don't know this, am I going to be able to learn this, am I going to be able to learn it fast enough and efficient enough to be able to, in this example, set the main foundation or platform for them being able to go forward officially so that my passion of coaching wasn't just a hobby, but really

has become my dharma, if you will, my calling that has emerged. So, that's one concrete example of hitting that growth edge, what it felt like, and then what to do about it was just go for it, really lean into and research the steps. And it's just funny because I remember looking back thinking, one day, I'm going to look back on this and maybe chuckle because it felt so daunting, but I did it. Or one day, I might come across somebody who's experiencing that same growth edge or those similar growing pains, in this example, again, around just establishing the LLC, the business, and I can, I'll be able to speak to that. And that feels really good. So, that's one example of hitting that growth edge and feeling those growing pains. And I'm still here. Yeah. I think what's interesting, though, is that the way that you're distinguishing between growth edge and growing pains is that they could be separate, but at least that's what comes up for me, that there's a possibility that you could hit that growth edge without that pain. I don't think that's the case, really, truly, to be honest. Okay. So, for you, they mean the same thing. So, growing edge and growing pains, do they mean the same thing? They're interconnected. I definitely think they're interconnected. I think the growing edge is literally that edge or that line or that place where you're uncomfortable, you don't know about it, you don't know what to do about it. It's a lot of just uncharted territory, right? Like a big, I like the notion of feeling like a small fish in a big pond, right? It's like all of a sudden there's all this space and the pains just, they come naturally

with it because of that lack of experience or because of feeling doubtful or overwhelmed. Yeah. Yeah. I just, in your language, I invite you to consider that edge and pain, like it may not have to be, right? Like this isn't a coaching session. We don't have to go there. That's not the point, right? But you know, what Jason talked about in another episode is like the way that people describe anxiety, the feeling of anxiety, it's actually the same thing when sometimes when people are excited or at adventure. So it's just talking about growing pains totally makes sense, right? Like what you're learning, how you're growing. But some of the edges here, I mean, not that there's not moments where when we tried to print listen and they said we needed a seller certificate, I was like, Google, what's a seller certificate? You know, I don't know what a seller certificate is. And then when we had to pay sales tax on listen, because it's our first tangible product, that was painful to me. So that wasn't just an edge, like that one was painful. I found it really overwhelming. So you know, it's just in words. Words are really important to me. We've talked about that in other episodes. So to me, that may even be something you want to play with at some point is the distinction between the edge and the pain. Because can you be on the edge without the pain? I think as the reluctant entrepreneur, the answer is probably no. But as we kind of lean into our own development, it's a question worth considering. And I really appreciate that point. And I'd like to speak to it because I have been considering it. And I really, I think that

the default for me, and maybe as you described for a lot of newer entrepreneurs, or even maybe seasoned ones for that matter, is the edge equals pain. But I've also found upon reflection that the edge equals things like fulfillment, and hope, accomplishment, joy, purpose, meaning, dharma. And so it's about for me, trying to maintain that mindfulness that edge doesn't have to be the default to pain. And so I so appreciate you kind of enlightening that. And going forward, it's like, how can I lean into those other aspects that the edge also provides? So thank you for that. Yes, love it. For me, when I hear edge, like a growing edge, it's almost like the term limit, right? So I start thinking of capability of possibility. So for our reluctant entrepreneurs, I would say most people when they're starting out a business, unless they've treaded this territory before, they don't know the hard and fast legalese of starting an LLC. I'm like, what do you mean I have to attach a address to every single newsletter I send out as an LLC? Well, I don't want to use my home address. Oh, so you need a PO box and etc, etc. And part of that learning process, again, in like to what Diana was talking about that we have shared, is that these emotions in certain contexts can be exciting, right? If you think about going on a vacation, exploring a new city, oh yeah, we'll just kind of like find a cool place to get lunch and exciting stuff like that. But if you're like, oh, I'm in a city and I've got a meeting in an hour and a half, how am I going to get over there? How am I going to get

my materials over there? All of a sudden, that's stressful. So when you say edge, right, growing edge, does that mean a limit that you didn't believe that you had the capability to grow? Or was this somehow that you had to implement some new skills in order to go further? Initially, it felt or feels even as I hit other growth edges, like a limit. And again, going back to maintaining that mindfulness, then on the other side of that coin is possibility. On the other side of that coin is if I implement this courage to develop or enhance a skill set or develop or enhance a relationship with a person or a resource, then it really opens up beyond a limit and becomes this possibility. But to me, it's that edge, it's like, how can you make that transition from the deficit approach to the growth approach? And that can be kind of tricky. And sometimes I, for myself, can get caught up in that space for a while. And being able to make that shift is truly a remarkable experience because, like you were describing, the sense of your demeanor, how you feel literally changes from all of these deficit things like fear and doubt and procrastination to this possibility where things open up like action and hope and fulfillment. And sometimes it just feels like, again, such a fine edge when it comes to the difference between those two. It's not instantaneous, per se, but because it takes a while to kind of grind through those experiences of the limitation, but then at the same time, it almost can feel instantaneous because once you make that shift, once you make that decision, the whole path really starts to unfold and it becomes really exciting. So

speaking of edges and cliffs, the song Hell of a View by Eric Church, I don't know if you know it, but it's essentially like this isn't for everybody living on the edge, but it's a hell of a view. So I recommend that. That's one of the things I've looked at kind of transitioning from a reluctant entrepreneur to the entrepreneur life. The other thing that comes to mind, and Jason and I will talk about this in future episodes, is so in tarot, the card that starts is the fool. It's essentially like a fool's journey or a hero's journey, and the fool is on a cliff and they're about to step off the cliff. And so if you think about that from an entrepreneur perspective, there are some people who are like, that's crazy. You're stepping off a cliff. Like, why go there? And then for other people, it's like, well, that's when the adventure starts. So I think what's interesting, as you mentioned, growth mindset, part of growth mindset is the both and, right? The fear, this is crazy. I can't do this. I don't know how to do this. And also, this is the edge, the next level, me pushing the limit, like both of those things are true. So I'm curious for you, as you think about whether it's growth edges or growing pains, what do you feel like you've learned? I can speak to like specifics, right? For example, with the establishment of the LLC, step one, step two, step three, etc. And I think those things are valuable in different contexts. And at the same time, I think on a more profound level, one of the things that I've learned or some of the things that I've learned are what we're unpacking

here. And that's the notion of courage, of risk, of hope, of connecting to community, to resources. So I've learned to really engage in the thinking of possibility so that that shift becomes more fluid. And also engaged in the leaning into or connecting to people and resources who have walked that path or maybe not even the same path, but the notion of have been on a path of learning and growth and can speak to the same challenges to find someone that resonates with me, that helps me feel like I'm not alone and that I can do this and that it is possible. And sometimes it comes with practical applications, and sometimes it just comes with a sense of empathy and understanding and consideration. So I've learned that for me, what works is to lean into those things sooner than marinating or getting stuck in the stuff that holds me back, that's limiting. So lots of familiar themes on things we've been talking about, right, finding that sense of community. Has anyone experienced this? Has anyone felt lost, especially for our reluctant entrepreneurs, which is that, is this really what I wanted to do, that questioning, that kind of searching? And I'm interested, Joseph, for you, you know, you've talked a lot about the kind of the emotional journey. And now that you're reflecting back, when did it start to feel like this wasn't, you know, that you were starting to get the hang of it and you were starting to believe in your capability? What comes up for me is when I, after I finally established the LLC formally, and then I got into the notion of now essentially I have to do promotion, sales and marketing, I have to get out there, which was also

and still continues to be an edge. But what comes to mind to me to answer your question is I was on a virtual call with a circle of men, healing circle of men that I'm part of. And I was describing this experience that I was going through, you know, parting from this organization, transitioning to this, this calling, this sense of passion and draw this Dharma. I keep coming back to Dharma, because I really feel like that captures the essence of it. And I was describing how I want, I'm going to be a coach, I'm going to be coaching. And long story short, one of the one of the fellows on the call, on the virtual call on the zoom, reached out to me, said, let's connect, we connected, we started talking about coaching, just so happens, I didn't know this till much later, but just so happens that that very day, he received a funding letter that said, specifically, you have training and development funds and can be used for things like coaching XYZ. All that to say that it was my first significant coaching contract. And it was like a shot in the arm, it gave me hope, it was like, this is possible, this is real. And then I started doing it, I started doing the coaching. And it just resonated with me, it just felt wonderful. And then in addition to that, that spurred getting the hours, very practical thing that I needed towards my associate coach credential that I see from ICF. And so that started to build some confidence and some momentum. I was volunteering with the International Coaching Federation, Washington State chapter, connecting to community, BIPOC in particular, and just feeling that sense of connection. And so there are

a handful of things initially along the way, that made me feel like this is possible. And it ebbed and flowed between, again, that limit and that possibility, that fear and that confidence. But those things, even some of the smallest things, some of the conversations that I had with individuals, just really gave me a sense of hope, and a sense of forward movement. So you mentioned Dharma, which is not a word I'm particularly familiar with. So I would love to hear a little bit more, because it sounds like it's something that really drives you. Yes. Yeah, other than from the TV show Lost. I'm not familiar with that TV show is. One thing I am familiar with, one of the catalysts, a book, a resource that I continue to go back to when I think about Dharma, is The Great Work of Your Life, it's by Stephen Koch. And in it, he talks about the yoga tradition. So I also have a yoga instruction certification and a yoga practice background. So this, coupled with the entrepreneur, has really been helpful for me as well. But he speaks to it, he says that... And if you're listening, Joseph's holding up the actual book, too. You've got the book, right? The physical book. Oh, absolutely. I've got tons of books. He's parading it around now. Yeah, I've got tons of books that, you know, I thought about what could be valuable to bring to this podcast, to this conversation, and definitely this is one of them. So he speaks to, in the yoga tradition, it's very, very interested in the idea of inner possibility harbored within every human soul. Yogis insist that every single human being has a unique vocation. They call this Dharma. Dharma is a potent

Sanskrit word that is packed tight with meaning. It can mean path, teaching, or law. He says, for purposes in this book, it will mean primarily vocation or sacred duty. It means, most of all, truth. Yogis believe that our greatest responsibility in life is to this inner possibility, this Dharma. And they believe that every human being's duty is to utterly, fully, and completely embody their own idiosyncratic Dharma. And he goes on to talk about genius and other really powerful things. Wow, I feel that, though. Yeah, likewise. Like, you could feel that. Oh, no, absolutely. That's what drives me. And so another part of the book he's talking about, he says, if you bring forth what is within you, it will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, it will destroy you. And so for me, that goes back to that comparison, that polarization of, again, limit, possibility. No pressure. Courage, right. But it's just incredible how it's empowering to really just lean into that Dharma, to sometimes sit in quiet meditation. You know, a lot of times people think yoga is about movement and poses and all that stuff, and it's much deeper than that. And so to have that kind of presence and return to that space of quietness and connection to what is my soul speaking to, what is my soul really wanting, and that's a huge part of being able to get past that limit, past that growth age, and then therefore experience all of those other things that I talked about, hope and fulfillment and purpose. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I think it's a fascinating thing as we think about not just the entrepreneur, but the reluctant entrepreneur, because at least there may be

some hesitation about that path, but then, you know, based on that definition, if you're not walking the path, it will potentially destroy you. Like there were definitely edges and pains along my path until it kind of regulated me into the entrepreneur space. So it's interesting to just see that. And it's also cool to, you know, having known you for these nine months, but not knowing that you're driven and passionate and you have that kind of depth, but also now learning this word about you. Thank you. And you know what emerges right now is I mentioned having a yoga certification, but I also have a quote unquote life coaching certification in addition to my ICF ACC credential. And the majority of the work that I've been doing in coaching has been executive leadership, team and group coaching, which I absolutely love. It's huge passion of mine. And there's this stuff that's kind of kind of marinating. And it's this stuff around the connection between yoga and coaching and transformation. And so specifically, I've actually created a course called The Growing Pains of Dharma. And it's waiting to be manifested into the world in an exciting way. And there's some reluctance there. And so even in this current space, I really appreciate just having the opportunity to explore that. So thank you. Well, and if you want that course, ICF approved, you know where to go. Yeah, no, he's definitely gonna have to tell us about it. He's built it up way too much. Because I think when most people hear concepts like dharma, which is, you know, a sacred inner calling, like a very purpose driven, that's very internal and very unique, and very an individual journey. Sometimes there can be an expectation that it should

be this like ascension, it should be this meteoric rise. Because once you find your true calling, then everything should lock into place. Right. Jesus had an easy life, right? Just right up there. But you're talking about growing pains, which is the struggle, the difficulty to make this concept of dharma and actualizing it and then actually putting that calling and getting ourselves onto that track, which sometimes feels a little incongruent. So can you share a little bit about where the expectation and where pain kind of those two meet, and what that does to move forward for our entrepreneurs or whatever an individual's dharma or personal journey may be? When I think about expectation, I think about two things. Well, one primarily, and that's the expectation that I put on myself, or sometimes we put on ourselves. When we think about, for example, how this dharma, the end of it looks and feels so grandiose. Like you said, the expectation that it could be hopefully an easy road, or it's all just going to unfold so naturally from there. And the truth is there are peaks and valleys, and there are demons and things along the way, self-doubts and things that you have to battle. And I think that sometimes, I'll speak for myself, I can set those expectations pretty high, particularly because I'm passionate and ambitious. And all along the way, sometimes I'll feel like the growth isn't happening fast enough, or it's certainly uncomfortable. And so those expectations then sometimes become kind of a negative, if you will, because of the way I approach them. So one example that comes to mind is now being officially accredited, and being a coach, and being in coaching community, and being connected on LinkedIn, for example. LinkedIn comes

to mind because that's one of the more prominent platforms that I've been engaging in. And as I've been connected to that, I see all of these other very successful coaches, or very successful individuals. And so my expectation shoots way up, like, I need to be at that level, and I'm not there, and I'm never going to get there, right? All of these things start coming into play, and all of this, that edge of, I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to do this, and I need to be at their level. And I know logically that I don't. And when I take a step back, I'm able to kind of release some of that pain, those growing pains, and just come to terms with the notion that they all didn't get there overnight. It took them time, it took them probably their own individual growing pain experiences, and it can be so easy to look at the success of others, and feel like, I'm not there yet, and I'm not meeting my own expectation. But sometimes I think it's unreasonable. Sometimes the expectations that we put on ourselves can be unreasonable. In terms of the time, Rome wasn't built in a day, right? So it takes time and that patience to be in that grind and that construction to be able to get to that place that may or may not look just like that other person, but that comparison. And there's this compare and despair kind of experience that sets in. And so I have to remind myself, that is them, and this is you. That is their dharma, and this is your dharma. And it's going to unfold the way it needs to for you. So I think that speaks to

kind of what you're asking about, that expectation and that pain that comes with it. Yeah, it's interesting that you brought up time, because it's actually the third time you brought up time or pacing, like by my listening. So I mean, that's one of the fun things about hanging out with coaches, right? So it sounds like some of the pressure feels like time pressure. So it may even just be, it hasn't unfolded yet, or I'm not there yet. A coach that I'm very close to and have worked with for a long time, she says, delay is not denial. And so sometimes that's important to remember, right? And then also, with you being driven by dharma, the depth of that means that, you know, we don't always know where we're going. And it's not necessarily our call, right? You know, it wasn't on my list to do this full time. But if I didn't do it full time, we wouldn't be sitting here. Absolutely. I mean, I think there's a balance between the notion of, you know, God, creator, divine, the mystic law of the universe, however you connect to, you know, that source of higher power and your own timing. And you're right, like there's definitely an expectation. And I don't even know what the expectation is in terms of a solid timeline. But for me, there's an expectation that it needs to be moving. And how come it's not moving faster? And how come I haven't gotten to that point? And it can be really, really nerve wracking, can cause a lot of tension. It does cause a lot of tension. So thanks for pointing that out and speaking to that. Yeah, divine timing can be a real pain. That's because instantly when you start

on some of these paths, or starting to realize this is what I really want to be doing, man, I should have I should have been doing this the whole time. It's easy to reverse map on and said, well, actually, this wouldn't be hard if I if I had started 10 years ago, if I had done that. And then it's really that kind of like time jumping where we go back in time and we say like if I had actually done this instead, and then we jump forward to the present, this would be so much easier. So that's why this is hard. This was much more difficult. It's this kind of this looping mechanism that really puts an extra undue pressure once we feel like we have found a very innate purpose. And that sort of expectation that I would be at these other people's level, if only is really a difficult thing to reconcile. But part of the reluctant entrepreneur is also acceptance that we teach in coaching a lot, that you are exactly where you need to be. And that is serving you as a protection of the difficulties you're facing and being reluctant, being reluctant against. But it's that's one of the things that's trying to protect you from those growing pains that Joseph's talking about. Yeah. And I love I've never heard compare and despair like that. Totally. It totally makes sense. But that's a great that's a great phrase for it. And so when I coach leaders, what I say is, you know, make the best decision you can with the information that you have at the time. Because then what happens is to Jason's point, well, we have new information. It's like, oh, if I had known this, if I

had done this, but like all of those what ifs like that's compare and despairing, right? It's like, well, did you have that information at the time? No, you didn't. But you have it now. So then how do you move forward with it? I thought I did. Right? Yeah. But I thought I knew everything in 19. But that's what learning is, right? And I think that that's that's the difficult thing. So a friend of mine who speaks about generational poverty, she talks about like, when did learning become failing? Because you know, when we look at it as failure, as opposed to when we look at it as part of the learning process, and obviously, if your livelihood is involved, and your sense of safety and security is involved, you know, that's a lot harder to feel comfortable learning like the grunt pains hurt. But one of the things I'm picking up from two of you is have some having some grace and some patience for yourself as you navigate through these things and really analyzing the expectations. And is it wishful thinking? I think it's wishful thinking to say, Oh, if I had just done this 10 years ago, you're right, Diana, 10 years ago, I wasn't even in a place that I could absorb or appreciate what's actually coming to me now. And the other thing that kind of emerges for me right now, too, is is be careful what you wish for. Because as as there's this sense of excitement and urgency, and I go forward with making connections and developing this, this coaching connections and business in particular, things are unfolding. And I'll give you a concrete example. I recently joined what's called the business, Business Networking International. And I met with, with

the with the member coordinator going through the process of getting, you know, officially accepted into the group and all of that stuff. And one of the questions that he asked me was, Are you do you have the bandwidth? Are you prepared to scale up? And I mean, that notion has been on my radar. But it's not in front of me. And he put it in front of me in a way that he said, I don't know anyone else who's doing business coaching that you're describing. And just within our network alone, let alone the network that those people know, and and this community, it could blow up, not saying it will or it won't or when it will, I'm just curious, do you have that capacity? And it really opened up my eyes like, oh, here I am so urgent and timing and expectation. And all of a sudden, this idea or this possibility is starting to come into the center of the radar. And it could become a very real, it could become a very real thing sooner than I anticipated. And oh, there's another growth edge and other growing pains again, all over again. So I think it's just this constant like journey and evolution and the edge and the possibilities literally limitless. So there is no edge. That's a good way to put it. I think maybe a self-perceived edge or it feels like an edge again, because it's it's at what currently is our limit or capacity. But as human beings, again, we have limitless potential and capacity. What comes to mind for me is almost like a ripple, you know, because it has edges, but or if you think about like a topographical map, right, there's edges, but it keeps going.

So that that may be as you think about growth edge and your dharma, it's and I think sometimes that what's that's what helps us get to the next one is like, oh, if this is my path and there's going to be edges, then I will survive this. It's like the whole I think this is from the Bible, but I know it from the Nike. I think it's Nike commercial, this like fall down seven times, stand up eight and he slams dunks at the eight. So it's like the getting back up after the edge and after the fall is so important. Jason mentioned something I think that's also key to a lot of this experience, and that's the notion of acceptance. Right. And you kind of just described that as well. Like there's a certain level of acceptance choice, really, that we have to to accept that this is part of the rules of engagement. And you said earlier this or I've heard you say before, this is not for the faint hearted. Like if you're going to step into this arena, know that these this is the nature of things. And some acceptance, I think, is really, really valuable and useful and important, even for me, as I feel and think about it now going forward, that this is the nature of things as an entrepreneur and in this space, this journey towards that Dharma. So, Joseph, what's next for you? Right. You mentioned about a course you're building. You've had all these learning moments, these growing edges, growing pains. I think what's next for me that comes to mind is not so much a specific course or opportunity. What I'm leaning into is that acceptance. What I'm leaning into is the navigation of this

whole experience, because whether it is a course or it is a certain client or whatever, whatever unfolds all along the way, I'm realizing deeper and accepting that how I how I navigate it all, how I handle it all internally, specifically, has a really profound impact on how it all unfolds. And so for me, what's next is grace, patience, acceptance. What we've been talking about in terms of being able to continue to move forward, pass limitations into possibility, into growth and into making impact. So that's what comes up like primarily. In addition to that, specifically, you know, I'm reaching towards my PCC eventually and I'm developing my executive leadership team and group coaching skill sets and networking and acquiring more clients and growing the business and what the steps look like for that. So lots of lots of things and lots of things. But I think, again, all behind all those things is what's the foundation internally? And I really want to strengthen that, get more solid in that way. Joseph, anything else you want to touch upon before we start? Oh, I just want to thank you for the opportunity to to explore this this topic. And I appreciate your time, your friendship, your mentorship. And I hope that this is impactful for other reluctant entrepreneurs. And thank you. Just want to say thank you so much. Appreciate it. You're absolutely welcome. It was a pleasure having you on, Joseph. Where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing? I'm definitely on the Hawthorne Union website. So you can go there. In addition to that, you can find me on LinkedIn and eventually on my own website. That's a growth edge for me that I'll be developing in the near

future. All right. Well, we will have links to those sites. I mean, we always have links to Hawthorne Union. So and several of the things that we referenced today in the show notes, Diana and I can also be found on the halls of LinkedIn and on Hawthorne Union's website as well. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. And until next time.