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# S4E15: The Reluctant Entrepreneur - Serial Entrepreneur
- URL: https://crossstreetcoaching.com/s4e15-the-reluctant-entrepreneur-serial-entrepreneur/
- Published: 2023-01-17T12:00:00.000Z
- Updated: 2026-03-25T01:51:15.000Z
- Description: Does being a Serial Entrepreneur mean you never return to regular work?
- Author: Jacen Spector
- Tags: Podcast, Season 4, #podcast-episode, #imported, Entrepreneurship

*Season 4: The Reluctant Entrepreneur | Episode 15 | 42 min*

**Guest:** Berry Worden

Does being a Serial Entrepreneur mean you never return to regular work?

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### Listen

[Listen on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/4x2vUMsBCDNb35oV1yEjEH?ref=crossstreetcoaching.com) · [Listen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cross-street-coaching/id1492768601?ref=crossstreetcoaching.com)

### Show Notes

Does being considered a Serial Entrepreneur mean you never return to regular work? Berry Worden discusses his foray into entrepreneurship, from massage therapy to CrossFit coaching to recruitment advertisement.

Connect with Berry on [LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/berryworden/?ref=crossstreetcoaching.com).

### Referenced in this episode

- [Century ride](https://granfondoguide.com/Contents/Index/931/what-is-a-century-ride?ref=crossstreetcoaching.com) \- a 100-mile bike ride

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### Transcript

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Cross-Street Coaching. This is a show about business, leadership, personal and professional development, all from a coach's point of view. We have been diving into our reluctant entrepreneur series this year, which is our flavor of starting a business for those that don't fit into traditional models. So if you weren't bestowed oodles and oodles of money, and if you weren't just chomping at the bit saying, I've always wanted to start a business, this is for everyone else in between. So we have been doing this as we've been doing this all year. And today, we're going to have a guest with us in the virtual studio, Barry. Hello, Barry. Hello, team. How's it going? And I believe my co-host Diana Ideus, master certified credentialed coach, is going to talk to us a little bit about why she invited Barry on the show. Thanks so much. So Barry, we're excited to have you here. So in addition to Barry just being part of my journey, as I was like, I can't do this. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have any money. I can't live here. So Barry was one of the people who kind of held my hair back and would have breakfast with me and make sure I wasn't crying over breakfast. So I'm thankful for that. But also, you know, to me, kind of as the reluctant entrepreneur who felt like kind of kicking and screaming, I know that Barry has had various like forays into kind of business ventures. And Barry, I'll just speak to that's inspiring to me. It also helped me kind of define myself as other, but the different ways that you've had kind of different entrepreneurial adventures, from kind of personal

training to campers to like things that you have on your own and, you know, just that to me is often what I associate with the entrepreneur. So you know, I thought it could be cool to get your perspective. You know, I don't know that you necessarily resonate as like a serial entrepreneur, or if that's a word that you kind of resonate with yourself. But at the same time, I think it's helpful also, as I go on this journey, you know, I had a lot of support and Barry was one of the important people on that. So just excited to have you on the show and learn more about you. Wow, that was awesome, man. Appreciate it. I'm glad to be here. Thanks team for the invite. You're right. I don't I don't see myself as a serial entrepreneur. I think that the journey that life has, you know, where the journey I'm took as being an entrepreneur, dabbling in different things has helped me be who I am today. And the losses, the wins, and the collaboration. I think all those tie into everything that I'm in today and continually to grow. But yeah, it's been a fun adventure. It's the very first paper route date of, you know, like, I want to make some money. Let's go. And then of course, it evolves into where I'm doing today with my nine to five and side hustles and entrepreneurship as well. Well, welcome to the show, Barry. We're very glad to have you. Yeah. And what help help our audience know what have some of these kind of side hustles and adventures that you've embarked on? Like, I know a couple of them, but I imagine that you probably had more. Oh, man, it's like,

how far, how long is this podcast and where do we want to start in a life journey of Barry, you know, starting like a paper route, elementary school, you know, making and selling ice, shaved ice, when kids would get out of elementary school for 50 cents a snow cone, and just awesome, just trying to start there and then scaling up to junior high and high school and, you know, quite not probably the most, you know, business to have in high school selling, you know, those peppermint toothpicks, everyone wanted those and, you know, when they're in classrooms and, you know, selling them for 75 cents a stick, you know, you walk out and you're like, I got 200 bucks this week. This is wonderful. But, you know, I think the more where I started to grind my teeth was getting out of getting out of out of college. Right, getting into, you know, going to college, I was a manager, UPS supervisor manager for about 11 years. But I think I started cutting my teeth entrepreneurship when I was tail end of UPS and realized that I wanted to sort of give back to people I want to give back and I found my core calling, which is just supporting the ones around me because that supports me as well, right to give and receive all in that in that wonderful umbrella is awesome. And so my first official was a wellness clinic. And that was only the outcome of me doing a ride from a wellness clinic, yeah, from toothpicks to a wellness clinic, not a serial entrepreneur or anything, no big deal. You know, to dive into, I did I did a hundred mile bike race for a bikini. And afterwards, you know, they

offered, you know, post, you know, sports massage, things like that. And I have this gentleman work on me and it was a song called Shiatsu, a Japanese form of physical therapy. And I left that table in awe of just like, whoa, how can I give this to other people in need? And went right into where do I need to go? How do I learn? How can I create my team to get and scale up to where, you know, I can give but then hit the masses. And I found this wonderful couple from Japan and they and they had an awesome clinic here in California, California Medical School of Shiatsu. And that's where I sort of started. I took the class, excelled and went right into partnering up with doctors and chiropractors to provide the community. My specialty was injury, sports injuries, and the same while having a wellness clinic, multiple modalities and learn there that partnership is key, right? Getting uncomfortable to get comfortable. And that's sitting in with doctors in surgery, figuring out what they do and what I can do to help them assist them in that and building my team, my clinic, which was a fun ride. I love talking about my wellness clinic because it was a big chunk of my entrepreneurial journey that I'm still continuing on. I mean, that is quite, it's interesting because you were like, oh, man, where do I even start? And then you're like, yeah, I just went on this hundred mile bike ride. Yeah. And had this amazing life-changing massage, you know. Right? Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, you go in there and you're like, again, I was going in a direction where, you know, in the massage world, and you're like,

oh, you're a man and guys and you're like, I had to break that stigma of anything related to massage and the bad connotation that comes with that sometimes in our society and really focus on the holistic. And it was a push, push, push. But once I broke that ceiling of like, okay, wellness clinic, started partnering up from everything like I get in chiropractors, family practitioners, to orthopedic surgeons, you know, specializing my team back in Modesto, right? But yeah, it was a tough road to get into. But then, you know, just again, the presenting and helping people was all right, both physically and mentally as well, because there's a whole lot of things when you, you know, when you're starting to feel relaxed, you the stars, man, it's awesome. What was your transition like out of that? And kind of, you know, because that's obviously that was a big endeavor. Like I don't know if you have employees as well, but you know, you had you had a center and all of these things. So as you transitioned out of that, you know, what, what happened? How do you kind of keep that entrepreneurial fire alive? Because I feel like you always have that passion and enthusiasm for some of these ideas. I think everything sort of leapfrogs, right? I think that you start something and things open up naturally branches go out from your, you know, your drive to create something that other opportunities in the world come to you naturally, which was nice, you know, with with the wellness clinic, as we sort of forecasted, you know, we're in here in California, how far we could take as we're doing a lot of insurance billing, is working really closely with a lot of, you

know, liens and working with lawyers and really trying to help the community out in rehab, that we understand the forecast of where it was going to be. In that interim, when we're figuring that out, partnering up with gyms and things like that, I, you know, became a certified super trainer, and I became a CrossFit coach. And that's where I sort of migrated into now coaching large classes in basic functionality in Modesto. That was a great segue into that. But as one door closed, another one opened up, which was great. And that was where, you know, a local company saw what I was bringing to the medical community, being able to have that conversation with doctors, chiropractors, you know, physical therapists, and then I migrated into what I'm currently doing now with my with my nine to five, which is a client service manager for recruitment advertising. So that's a another shift. But there's a lot of things that fill in the gaps between that and what I'm currently doing now. So the nice thing about the flexibility is going into, you know, a business relationship with a company and say, Hey, look, this is what I do on the side, and they're open for it. And they're like, yeah, continue to grow there, which is great. And I think I've fallen into sort of being blessed to be able to work for a nine to five gives me the flexibility to continue that entrepreneur spirit, side hustles, and then show my daughters how it's done, right, and put them through the same things I did. And I'll bring them into let's not be content with just a nine to five, let's, let's get out there and explore and test the waters. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes

it's cold, and sometimes it's warm. We just gotta figure that out. Yeah. So to clarify, you're you're in a, an employment now? Yes. Yes. I'm actually employed. Yes. And the way that you talk about... He's always working on something, though. Like multiple somethings. He's always got something in the way. Right. And it's, yeah, because it's interesting, because we have we have talked about people that have kind of weaved in and out of self employment. And the way that you talk about it seems very, very positive. It doesn't seem like you're like, well, you know, had to go back to a job. It seems like you have a very positive disposition on it. And considering that, hey, like, I'll, it seems like it's a door that's always open to return, even if it may not be the same business. Is that accurate? Or? Yeah, that's 100% on the nose. You know, going into, you know, the transition, again, the stars are aligned, right? Being able to have an employer understand my passion and, you know, and be able to support that. And of course, you know, then they do put down the stake, like, perform and get your quota, get your quotas and everything. Everything's good. So but, you know, the first two years of any new employment, you're sweating bullets, right? You're like, you know, letting go of one thing and trying to pick up another and try to think, oh, I think I think that I'm, you know, working too many hours and not giving enough. But once you, you know, show your worth and show the product and that, you know, your intent is to to give them as much love as much as my entrepreneur side hustles, you know, then then the

relationship is bonded and you just like you never want to leave because it's awesome. It just works out fine. And I'm curious, did you close the clinic? Did you sell it? No. It ended up that we ended up, man, started off with a small room in a chiropractic office. And we actually migrated to next to a business building next to a hospital. We built it out and had five clinic rooms, multiple different modalities, and ended up becoming a co-op. And became a business owner and sort of I phased out and and, you know, I kept involved consulting, had some clients that I've been working on for years and sort of slowly just phased out. And to this day, I mean, the company itself closed LLC. It's in the past, but they came to co-op, they made it work and it's still a thriving clinic in Modesto. So I'm glad to see that it's yeah, so it's it's it's pretty awesome. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. So it's good to catch up with my friends when I go and visit, but to see that it's still there and that, you know, what I help support and it's just see it grow is is great. It's good to see. Barry, I think one of the things that's that I'm curious about kind of in the spirit of the show is, you know, what did you learn? So after kind of going through this whole process where you were essentially someone that was passionate about it and bring this business idea to a very established industry. Right. So you're bringing it, like you said, to massage therapists and chiropractors, people that have been doing this for a long time. And you're coming in as maybe perceived as an outsider.

You know, what was that experience like and how is that informing what you're doing now? Because that's that's a pretty bold shakeup, right? Yeah, the man, you're right. Your question is bringing up a lot of the challenges and that it took to get to that one point and then break again that glass ceiling, being able to be, again, a male in a massage industry, which I never used the word massage, I never used the word anywhere massage because I was trying to break that stigma and everything. But the thing is just consistency, right? It's showing by example. And, you know, and one thing is just, again, you know, walking the walk and talking the talk is key in that industry, right? Where you're like, all right, no, this is what I do. This is how I perform. And here are my testimonials. Here are my subset of clients I've been able to take from one point to another point and everything. And that testimonial, that's it, right? I mean, I can sound like a sales guy sometimes, but I think the true testament is, you know, who's in, who's my surrounding, where's my testimonials, where are my supporters that have been able to see me work and do things and actually get to the point where I need to be. And then that just naturally, organically starts to convince the people in that industry like, okay, Barry's here, he's got a drive, he's got a vision, you know, and what can we do to support that? And I think that right there just opened up the doors with relationships with, you know, sometimes you're intimidated to talk to a doctor or a chiropractor and things like that. But yeah, man, it was, it was, it

was awesome that I, you know, going back to your question, it's definitely consistency on, on, on just being talking to talk and walk in the walk and, and, and, you know, leaving no room for, for anybody to speculate. It just gets right, you get right into the meaty part of it. I think for you though, too, it's relationships because I, I mean, whether it's toothpaste or wellness, like, it's like, Hey, Barry, like, what are you working on now? Right? Like you have just kind of an enthusiasm that I will say for myself when I was just in the struggle and I was like, ah, like, you know, for, for me, the path of what I'm offering has been relatively consistent. Obviously there's diversity there, whether it's consulting or coaching or training, et cetera. Like there's a lot under that umbrella. But I think what's interesting with you is how much from a yes, helping people is a theme, but there's so many different aspects that you've helped people, whether it's helping them take a vacation or helping them staff their employment, you know, like their place of employment or actually from a wellness perspective. But I, I think, you know, if you think about it, how many of those toothpicks did people buy? Cause they just wanted to come hang out with you. Right? So I think that's something to think about as well as like, as we talk about sales and relationships, you know, a lot of people are so focused on, okay, well this isn't my product. But I think a way that maybe you've embodied and maybe aren't even conscious of embodying is that it, you just have a kind of enthusiasm about your ideas and a commitment to relationships. So it

makes it really easy to, for people to just check in and be like, Hey, what are you doing now? Thank you. And, you know, you really don't want to wear that and see, you know, cause it's all authentic. Right. And you really don't realize that until someone actually says it that, you know, like, cool that, you know, the perception of just being in the same room with other people and, and, and if it's naturally organically, it feels natural and you're giving, that's good. Right. It doesn't feel forced. And, and, and so thank you for that observation. Yeah. I think it goes down to relationships, like you said, you know, business, professional, personal. I want every relationship to, I want to connect and, and, you know, I believe in, and I have shared with you this before that everyone has something in common and trying to find that is, is the key to that relationship. Which I love. Right. And we've all been in those relationships where it's like, Oh man, you're trying to get in tune with an individual, but once you find that, that little opening, it opens up the door. And, and, and, and I try to do that as much as naturally as you can, questions, listening, you know, and, and sort of poking and prodding and being receptive. And once you find that, it was like, man, there's no one you can't have a relationship with for sure. So what do you think some of the techniques, if you're just kind of like now realizing that, yeah, maybe that was a little bit of the secret sauce in there was the way that you manage relationships. You know, I'm hoping that people that are listening to this say, yeah, I absolutely

use my network, but it's really easy from some of the reluctant entrepreneurs we've worked with to think that, Oh, like social time is, that's fun. I need to like put heads down and get into work. When your approach has been like really strong at the network department and saying like, I'm always able to find something in common. Can you talk a little bit about what your approach is to find commonality when things are so divisive these days, religion and yada, yada, yada. Oh man. Yeah. The stories. I mean, yeah. Yeah. All the spicy stuff. Right. Um, I, I think, uh, it starts with the, on the subconscious relationship. Right. And, and, and I say that because through training, um, and everything, you know, trying to mirror people, um, I think when you're seeing things that I love about videos and the new zoom, you know, uh, where we're at now to where we're at, you know, three years ago, I mean, for me, this is my space. I love it because you know, if it's one-on-one, if it's sitting down, it starts off with making the person across from you feel comfortable with no words spoken. And for me, I naturally now will, you know, the way you're positioning your hands, the way that you're sitting, I want that person to feel comfortable without me saying anything first. Yeah. And, and it's those slight gestures, you know, in the beginning of you, like, Oh, you're being manipulative. And you're like, no, what I'm doing is I'm taking the environment and trying to make it as much as comfortable as possible. And that right there is just marrying the person you're talking to. Um, if it's articulation, if it's the way you're saying things to the

way you're sitting and everything, for me, it becomes natural now I go, Hey, they're drinking their coffee with their left hand. I'm going to grab mine with my left hand, you know, kind of thing, just because I think that's the, the, the, the, the door again, that opens up to bigger things. Now getting to the spicy stuff, right? The spicy is agree to disagree and continue moving on as professionals. Now that's easy, even professionals and personal, um, but when it, you know, I keep, I'm using the word spicy, right? You talk politics, religion, you name it. Um, once you find out like, okay, you have to, when you have that communication, you have to have that open mind, um, and, and just not have a knee jerk reaction, but learn because you know, whatever it is, I'm, I'm an old dog and I'd still want to learn new things. Um, and if that means me learning their perspective, that might change my thought process. It might not, but I'm willing to listen. And with that, uh, that in curiosity with the other person on the other side of that table, desk, whatever that might be, um, makes that person feel comfortable and it's something we can agree to disagree. And usually my perspective, it's all work around a hard question. If I know this is the direction that the conversation needs to go in, um, and, and, and sort of test the waters before doing a cannibal because when you get spicy, you can dip your toe or you can launch into the deep end and do a cannibal and then it gets real. So you've talked about getting uncomfortable to get comfortable. And that's some of, that's some of seems to be what you're

referencing with like spicy and things like that. But I'm curious, like in your own journey, how you've seen those potentially uncomfortable moments and how those have shaped you and shaped your comfort level. You know, they, I mean, going from uncomfortable to get comfortable, man, maybe it's, you know, the, and when, when I say that and I mentioned that to people, it's, you know, sitting in the back of the classroom and going, you know, I don't want to be in the back of the classroom anymore. I want to be, what's it going to feel like to be in the front of the classroom in front of the teacher? Right. Uh, it's going to be uncomfortable. What if I'm the one that first raises my hand instead of being the last person that raises my hand? Right. And I, what if I get called upon first and I don't know the answer, um, and, but I struggle, I get through it. I learn, I grow. I'm uncomfortable to get comfortable by reputation and things like that. Maybe it's the, you know, graduated from high school and in 1994 and in 1990, you know, it was cool to shave the side of your head and have long hair, right? Pull back into a ponytail. Now it's coming back into fashion, but you know, I'm like, Hey, I'm going to throw some beads in my hair and I'm going to walk right down the corridor, making that swish swish noise. And yes, I know people are going to make fun of me. I know people are going to poke at me, but I want that. I want to grow. Sure enough, I, you know what, I was managing a fast food restaurant. I had a bunch of ladies on

the team. I need you to prove it. Not because I doubt you, but because I want to see. Man. I was like, I was managing a fossil farms restaurant, another journey that I skipped in between the life of Barry. Um, I said, Hey team, uh, can everyone come over to my house and just throw, you know, about 200 beads into my hair, braid my hair and let's go. And they're like, sure, Gino, let's go Barry. Sorry. I went by an alter ego in high school. The, um, but yeah, walking down that hallway, just swish swish swish and hearing, I'm like, dude, it hurt. Right. I heard it, man. I heard every name in the book being called and everything. And I did that for three or four days. I'm like, dang, I feel good. Right. I built that. I tore up all these band-aids and it really understood who I am. And just, I kept on doing that all the way through my life, getting uncomfortable to get comfortable. Um, and, and I think that those points are just sort of relevant to how I've been seeing life in general. Right. Um, this podcast in general, my gut was killing me, you know, like, oh man, audio, things like that. And I'm like, Oh, what's Jesus going to ask? Oh my gosh. Um, you know, and, but, you know, afterwards I'm going to be like, ah, I felt good. And it goes down to I'm comfortable to get comfortable. Um, and, and it's, it's a growing process and I don't think, I don't think I ever really truly want to be super comfortable no matter what. I think there always has to be that slight uncomfortableness, um, cause I think that's gross. Um, and, and

so, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. It sounds too, it reminded, because you've worked in the wellness field and then also in personal training and things like that. It is the whole breakdown to build up, like that's very similar to muscles. And you know, I think people think about that and they know that from the gym, but we don't necessarily think about it when it applies to professional endeavors. But I mean, beads in your hair, man, I would like to see that. Yeah. You know, um, man, that was pinnacle. The other ones, you know, is taking a sign language class because I have a cousin who's deaf and, and doing, you know, a 10 minute speech in front of 300 people. That is intimidating. Right. I'm in a different world and, and it sucks. So I mean, it's, yeah, each, each one of those uncomfortableness is, breaks off into bigger and better things, which is, which is great and experiences. So, but getting back down to getting uncomfortable breaks it down so then you can build it up. It is a great way to metaphor to sort of see that as well. So that's awesome. I'm glad you, uh, braved the waters to come on to the hot seat here. I mean, this was originally going to be called crossfire coaching, took it down a notch to make you a little more comfortable, Barry. Now we call it cross street coaching because of all our spicy questions. Um, but no, thank you for sharing a lot of your outlook and, and what brought you to this point. So I am curious, what is on the horizon? What is interesting to you when it comes in terms of business or development and what's kind of on

the horizon in Barry's world? Oh, you know, just turned 47, right? So, you know, I'm always about talking about the long game, uh, of life from strategies, but living in the moment, right? Especially when you have daughters and understanding that, you know, soon they will be free and doing everything. So, um, continuing and tightening down my entrepreneurial drive, um, to look at legacy, looking at being able to create something when I'm no longer here is more of my focal point now. Um, and, and being able to eventually, you know, offer a pass down to my daughters and then of course their daughters and, and then their kids eventually down the road. But enjoying life and family is key, but doing it, but I have a passion for what I do. And if it's a, if it's a nine to five, if it's entrepreneur and everything, my heart's always in it and, and it doesn't feel like work. Um, and, and I want to be able to leave something to, uh, you know, it's going to sound, you know, you hear all the time, like, I want to give something to the world, the kind of thing. But I think that, um, my, my daughters are, you know, passing something to them and then, and they pass it to others and giving them the tools, the skillsets. But I think that, um, on the horizon is pivoting everything I've learned in the 47 years. And really micro-focusing on a long-term plan that, that can continue my hard work and giving back and being able to see that beyond my neighbors. Um, and I'm on that directory and I believe it's, you know, situations like this, these kinds of podcasts being, having, and of course Jason, I've

been in the presence of you in a room, which is awesome, contagious, thank you, Diana, on a consistent basis as well, um, helps fuel that. Um, and, and, and sometimes realigns, uh, the focus and, and really gets me in line. So that might, that's sort of my long winded sort of question to you, Jason, but, um, yeah, always hustling, always grinding, um, always getting uncomfortable. Legacy building. Very cool. Yes. What do you want to be known for? Oh man, you know, you know, what, what do you want to be said at your funeral kind of thing? Um, mine would just be, you know, very loved everybody, I guess, right? I think that, uh, that Barry was the essence of giving, um, uh, unconditionally. And I think unconditional, uh, is huge in my word, in my world right now, unconditional, um, ups and downs, you know, uh, of life takes it, um, no matter what, uh, unconditional, um, friendship, love, um, and giving is something that I just want to be known for and, and, and hopefully again, create things that can continue that way beyond my years for sure. Thank you for asking. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you're already on that path. Don't go anywhere. So one of the things I hear though, there's a way that you just have kind of an enthusiasm and a focus on relationships in the midst of these different business ventures. And I think a lot of people separate those out like, Oh, this is the time I make money. Okay. This is the time when I am relationship building in order to make money. So what do you see, like, what advice would you give or perspective would you give for someone who's having trouble kind

of meshing those together? Because I think you do it quite naturally. Yeah. So I would say that, you know, to, it's easy to get into the idea because I love, I love what I do so much that sometimes in my human things I'm trying to work on is I get so focused on being able to give, I sometimes forget about taking care of myself. Right. So, you know, the whole, you know, the plane's going down, who gets the mask first, right? Kind of thing. And I have to be that consistent reminder. And I think surrounding myself with mentors and people to remind me, take care of yourself so you can continue that legacy is key. Because as entrepreneurs, it's easy to get the blinders on and get lost into the process and lose focus on the foundation that's helping you get there. So one, take care of yourself, right, physically and mentally surround yourself with mentors and like minded people that can support you. You know, being around someone who is where you want to be is, is great because that strives you to get to that caliber to get that level. And then, you know, once you get there, move on and continue to grow. So the struggle is real, right? If there are the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, you know, I mean, we're talking about my highlights, you know, there's, there's losses and everything, but, you know, as long as you keep your head up and the mind right, right mindset, you know, you can accomplish anything, you know, with, especially with your circle of friends, your mentors, but yeah, it's, it's a journey, but it's one, I think that as an entrepreneur, it's a special breed. And once you know you

are, it's just like, this ain't work, this is just fun, right? And that's sort of my sort of take on that question. So you've, you've mentioned having to take a few big L's, right, as a part of the journey and, you know, keeping a more realistic perspective, is there anything that you want to share to kind of juxtapose like, hey, like, it's all good. It's networking. It's like hanging out and good times and making friends that you wanted to obviously use as more of a cautionary tale to kind of give a little bit more balance of realistically what that entrepreneur endeavor is, especially when you're thinking about, I'm more legacy building now, I'm leaving something that, that other people will remember me for or that leave behind for other family members and so on and so forth. I mean, what would you like to kind of highlight that was a good learning lesson, rather than just let's salt some wounds here? Yeah, you know, the good learning lesson is for, for a lot is, you know, learn, learn when to let go. And for me, personally, letting go is the hardest thing, like, I will see this thing to the very end, and then think it can go further. Right. And this is where you rely on your, your, your mentors, you rely on your social circles to understand, you know, where you get in, you're like, No, I know, I, personally, and sort of the the wellness clinic, did I want to let it go and move on, but, you know, it was tough, right? I'm like, okay, I'm, you know, we're closing business, but now I still want to be involved, I still want to be intertwined. And it got to the point

where you're like, kinder realization, I'm hanging on to this too long, I need to let go to to move on. And so and by releasing that weight, I became lighter. And here I am today. And so, you know, the ups and downs is, you know, don't do it by yourself. Always be around entrepreneurs, you know, mentors, people that you aspire to be. Because when when you ask them, you know, when you ask questions, and you network, you understand like, okay, I'm really beginning to understand my process and what I need to work on. But learning to let go was key. And then moving on to another son, sort of hit sort of your question, I, Jason, I can probably dive a little deeper if you wanted to, you know, ask in a different way, if you if you don't mind. No, I mean, we didn't want to go into every single like gloom and doom. But I think you did bring up a good part, which is, hey, we're talking about a lot of fun things. But there's a, there's a couple times where you learn some very difficult lessons as well. And thank you for sharing that. Yeah, my pleasure. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's rocky, it's right, you go into it, if you know, you're going into it, and it's gonna be challenging, they're going to be sticks in your spokes that you're going to fall off the bike, you're going to get back up and, and, you know, wipe off the dust and get back on it. It's just part of it. And knowing that there will be trials and tribulations and, and tasks that that'll be good and bad. And that's part of it, then you're, you're a true entrepreneur,

right? I mean, at the brighter side of life and things like that, but understanding, you know, and I say this a lot, you know, the better understand where you've been to where you want to go. And everything like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go down this path was a little bumpy. This time, I'll, I'll use better shots, you know, kind of thing. So I'm sorry, that's sort of really dorky. I mean, I mean, for me, personally, when I think about experiences like that, like something like letting go, is that in my mind, they should be these quick, like turnarounds, right? Like you just wake up one day and you open up the curtains and Disney birds fly in your window seal. And that thing that's been bothering you for months is just like gone, right? And you're over it. But in reality, it's usually these protracted slow dissipations. And it's only in retrospect, you can say like, yeah, that was like a really long process and very, very difficult. But I'm absolutely better for it, where in the midst of it, you're like emotions. These are stupid. I want to just get rid of them. I know they make us human, but can I just suppress them and then go about like the rest of my day? So, I don't know if you had any thoughts about that. You know, you're right. The emotional tie to business is key, Jason. I mean, just saying that it all resonates with me, right? With the, you know, just give me one more chance. I know I can do this, hanging on by that thread. If I try it and I pivot and everything, you know, and all of a sudden, you're just like, there's no more gas in

the tank, right? You're like, I'll find the gas somewhere, you know, and then all of a sudden, you're like, okay, that's when, you know, you're like, okay, nope, cut off, go, move, move it in a different direction and everything. And then sometimes it's, you know, a year later, you're like, man, that was a hard call, but the best one I've ever made, you know, and how can I take that learning experience to, you know, take it back into even other situations like, how did I feel when that was happening? You know, what made me keep it on for so long, where like, the horse is dead, Barry, you know, time to move on, kind of thing, where it's like, okay, next time, it got easier. And it got easier. Still stings, right? We all are human nature, but then you're like, okay, business to emotions, how can we get those together when they come at most at best, but then how can we separate that at those right times? So yeah, so that, you know, understanding that process is good, but I believe everyone should go through it. The true testament is you really don't know until you know, and everything all looks good on the books, right? You read the books, you hear the stories, but until you're there, you know, trying to keep your nose above water and in the trenches, and you're like, oh, okay, now I can share my story. And now I know I have something to build off of. So that's emotions and business. Yeah, they get murky. And separating those is key sometimes. Anything else you want to add as we close? For me, again, I use uncomfortable to get comfortable. And so for in general, and this

opportunity for to be on the show, to get uncomfortable, right? I'm all now I'm thinking, dude, I'm gonna hang up, we're gonna end this, this, this call. And I'm gonna think, how can I do things better? I'm gonna write down notes, things like that, you know, how can I take what I've done and make it better? And be you know, how can I get more next time? Which is good. And this is what I'm what I personally needed. But for the entrepreneurs out there, don't stop hustling and grinding, you know, it's, it's so much fun to to test the waters and again, dip your toe in different things and see what you love and what you're passionate about. And surround yourself with like minded people be inspired, get your mentors, read those books, listen to podcasts like these, and keep driving. It's fun. And all the ups and downs. The journey is always a good story to tell some excellent advice. And when it's not fun, find your Barry, you know, because for me, it's a lot of it felt like drudgery for a long time. And, and I'll say, you know, we Barry and I try to have like breakfast once a month and he'd be like, Okay, what are you doing now? Okay, how's the business now? And like, just you know, I think that's important too, is that, you know, in your ability to connect with people that are separate from you, also, sometimes that diversity of perspective is really important. Because, you know, from a reluctant entrepreneur perspective, sometimes you're like, I can't do this. This isn't fun. Is it supposed to be fun? This is supposed to be fun. So I think that's where like the support and the relationships

really come in as well. And, you know, I have gratitude for you and your support in my journey. Thank you. And I agree with me, you know, sometimes looking through the glass, looking through the lens differently, right, from a different perspective, is great, right? I mean, we when we first met, we're different worlds, right? But I'm intrigued, I want to know, and everything. So asking those questions and creates that dialogue and hearing your feedback, for me, you know, again, that's, that's keeps the fire lit, and everything, even completely different industries can support each other. Right? It's that human connection. And so as much as you're right, you need, you know, you call me out, you know, find yourself a Barry, it's me finding a Dan, right? It's, you know, I gotta find more time to hang out with Jason. But yeah, that's, that's key is surround yourself with like minded individuals, because that's how you continue to grow and keep the fire lit. Completely agree. Barry, where can people find out more about you? Oh, man, very good, I'm gonna give you get a little bit more active on LinkedIn. So just type in Barry Worden, you'll find me with a nice cool black and white bow tie. You'll be seeing some power moves on there. Maybe notes, I'll drop in my, my LinkedIn. And you'll be able to keep track of where I've been to where I'm going. And that's my first business way to sort of connect with me. But I'm a connector. Let's let's connect on LinkedIn. That's where we start. Let's see where things can go after that. Barry, thanks again for coming on the show. We will have links to a few of the things that we referenced today. In

the show notes, you can find Diana and I also on the halls of LinkedIn and on www.HawthorneUnion.com. Thanks for tuning in. And until next time. Transcribed by https://otter.ai 

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